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Author Topic: Cop Killer to go free
pato
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Folk hero or cold blooded murderer......either way, he's paid his price--now he walks.

Claude Dallas Goes Free

pato

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En la vida se presentan dos o tres ocasiones para ser heroe, pero casi todos los dias se presentan la ocasion para no ser cobarde"

Posts: 4440 | From: San Antonio, Texas, USA | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
Retired Bum
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Guys like this are always seen as some kind of hero by the malcontents in this country.

And it isn't just a "white" thing either. Remember the blacks celebrating when O.J. beat the rap for double 1st degree murder ten years ago?

If this scumbag has any sense he will fade into the woodwork and keep a very low profile for the rest of his life. But who knows, he may try to cash in by writing a book or making public appearances like Randy Weaver was doing a few years ago. Back in Oct 2000 I went to a local gunshow and Weaver was there with a table piled high with his book. He was signing the books for those who bought them. And for a fee you could have your photo taken standing next to him with a Polariod camera. I'll bet the IRS was keeping an eye on him and audited his ass every year. Once you piss off the feds, you stay on their shit list for the rest of your life........


The Retired One

Posts: 12920 | From: Hoosier State | Registered: Sep 2000  |  IP: Logged
Bubba30
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24 years for two killings and he's paid his price? Pato have they got you on meds or something take one life and yours should be spent in jail, take two and the rest of your days should be spent under the jail.

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Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.


Don't do anything by half. If you love someone, love them. If you hate someone, hate them until it hurts. -Henry Rollins

Posts: 1685 | From: New York | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
TLynn
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There was enough controversy with his case in the first place that we'll never know the true facts if he paid the price or not. Personally, I don't think he should of been let out of jail because of the second man he killed. That was outright murder and not self defense no matter how much Dallas may have said otherwise. Pogue was gunning for him probably, the other guy wasn't even prepared.

RetiredBum, I may despise Randy Weaver but you cannot compare him to Claude Dallas. They are nowhere near alike. Claude Dallas is a cold blooded killer. Randy Weaver more of an idiot who got talked into doing something illegal. Both killed cops but in Weaver's case the cops (federal) way overstepped the bounds and were charged and convicted in a court of law before that was overturned by our lovely fruit cake of a 9th District Court in San Francisco.

It's comparing apples to oranges and it doesn't wash.

I remember both trials, unlike most of you I got to hear about them daily, read about them daily in the paper, hear about them at work daily. They not only both happened in my state, both trials were right here close by.

Posts: 2836 | From: Idaho - you got a problem with that? | Registered: Sep 2000  |  IP: Logged
Bare
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During the Carter administration (Democrat) various government agencies were pulling the rug out from under the feet of many industries. Logging, ranching, fishing to name a few. Environmental laws were running rampant over many indutries. The actions were sudden and very damaging to many who were not prepared for the sudden changes. Many lost jobs and others lost everything. The IRS was running slip shod over citizens in their quest for the dollars to pay the government bills. As a results, bitter resentment infested these areas. Many who had never had a hand out in their lives were now depending on welfare and unemployment and the generosity of others.

Claude Dallas was not to be hampered by a few silly laws during such times. When confronted by the Wardens, he shot them. His story was, he out drew them when theatened. The clincher was when he took a .22 rifle and shot them both in the head, coup de grâce. I can't recall if the autopsy said which shot ended their lives. He was charged with murder and was found guilty of man-slaughter. The DA believed there may have been some sympathetic jurors. The coup de grâce showed he clearly intended to murder them.

It was hard to find anyone in the area who wasn't moved by the entire incident. It was hard to find anyone who was not sympathetic to Dallas.

"Banning" seems to be the stock in trade of extremists. If something needs to be controlled some, extremists scream BAN. Reason must win out over these dilettantes. Carter lost to Reagan but the damage was done.

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You become that which you despise.

Posts: 3571 | From: California | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
pato
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Here's my take:
First, Dallas was given a sentence. He served it and apparently was a model prisoner (after the escape and re-apprehension, that is). He paid the price asked of him, my opinion on the sentence notwithstanding. Dallas gets to go free, that's the way the system works. I have personal issues with the sentence, but no issues whatsoever with him going free once he has served what he was sentenced to.

Second, I believe that Dallas was a murderer and knew that the wardens would be coming for him. He believed that game laws didn't apply to him. That Pogue was "gunning" for him is immaterial--Dallas was in clear violation of the laws and flaunted it--knowing that sooner or later he would have to face a lawman.
He shot Pogue and Elms, then delivered the kill shots to the head. If he did that in Iraq, we'd all be watching a court martial and waiting to see how many years he'd be making big rocks into little rocks at Leavenworth. Apparently Dallas said he did it out of habit--to kill an animal mercifully. The jury didn't buy it and I don't either. Dallas is lucky that he wasn't shot on sight, armed or not, after doing that to helpless men.

Weaver didn't kill a Federal officer (Billy Degan). His son did. His son also died in the exchange. Weaver was a long time white supremacist and anti-ZOG guy that put his family through drills to prepare them for a confrontation with the gov. and had prepared firing positions that he would have his children man when ANYONE came up the drive. I have my opinions on things and, as a man, take responsibility for my actions and beliefs. However, I would NEVER place my children in harm's way to defend MY beliefs. Apparently, Weaver doesn't feel the same way.
What happened up there has been a source of controversy for years and the subject of the longest ever thread in HCT history. I'm not going to debate it any further here.

Dallas will be freed. He served his time. It's right that he should be let go.

pato

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En la vida se presentan dos o tres ocasiones para ser heroe, pero casi todos los dias se presentan la ocasion para no ser cobarde"

Posts: 4440 | From: San Antonio, Texas, USA | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
Traveler
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Pato, wasn't Weaver a White Seperatist? , not a White Supremacist....

Just a clarification.

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How fortunate for leaders, that the masses do not think.
... Adolph Hitler

Posts: 697 | From: NC | Registered: Sep 2000  |  IP: Logged
TLynn
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Weaver was a Seperatist. He wanted to be left alone more than anything.

And in all reality his wife was the moving force and controller of the family not Weaver himself.

pato - no offense but there's a lot about the Weaver family and what happened that truly didn't make it into the National news correctly. He was set up, the federal government didn't let the local police do the arrest which would of resulted in no bloodshed, and quite frankly it was the federal police who caused the problems in the first place. Weaver was and always will be an idiot. The federal sniper knew exactly what he was doing when he killed Weaver's wife. He took out the brains of the family. Probably why the prosecutors here in Idaho charged him with cold blooded murder.

I still believe they should of moved Claude Dallas's trial to a different place than where they held it. Too many good old boys that wanted to glorify him. It was a media circus here while the trial went on. But Pogue had gone after him too many times and it had been documented and that in a sense made it an easy defense for Dallas to use. As for the rest where he was tried the jury was ready to be sympathetic - too many times the federal government had trampled over the people - and they let their emotions get the better of their judgement so they went with manslaughter over murder. I don't agree with it but it was their call and it's what we have to live with.

So he's free and has paid his debt to society. I still believe he should of served his full term - no time off for good behavior. But I also know they need the jail space. Go figure.

Posts: 2836 | From: Idaho - you got a problem with that? | Registered: Sep 2000  |  IP: Logged
pato
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No offense taken.
I am aware of the circumstances surrounding the attempted apprehension of Weaver.
They tried to turn him, had him sell a weapon with a barrel too short, and then the business about "failure to appear".
However, once it was Federal--it was up to the Feds to get Weaver--thus the Marshal's SOG.

They crept in, observed, the dogs were alerted, a shootout took place, and the rest is history.

Whether Horiuchi shot and killed her according to the rules of engagement present at the time or whether he did it in cold blood is another point of contention. Danny Coulson wrote a book about the FBI HRT and he addresses that issue clearly. No, Coulson is not just parroting the FBI line either. It's a good book--I'll get the title for anyone interested.

pato

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En la vida se presentan dos o tres ocasiones para ser heroe, pero casi todos los dias se presentan la ocasion para no ser cobarde"

Posts: 4440 | From: San Antonio, Texas, USA | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
Jungle Work
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Tlynn-
Your's is one of the best evalutations of Weaver I've seen. Too bad more folks are not as "all knowing, all seeing" as you. I knew him when he was a Candy Striper in Training Group, I too thought he was an idiot.
The last time I saw him was at a gun show and he said "Hey, I know you" and I just kept on walking.

Too bad Claude Dallas was not as "bad" as he thought he was when he surrendered to officers. Too bad there was not an excuse to exercise justice.

Jungle Work

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From this day to the ending of the world we in it shall be remembered. We lucky few, we band of brothers. For he who today sheds his blood with me shall be my brother. CURRAHEE

Graduate: University of South Vietnam School of Jungle Warfare

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JJ
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quote:
Originally posted by pato:
No offense taken.
I am aware of the circumstances surrounding the attempted apprehension of Weaver.
They tried to turn him, had him sell a weapon with a barrel too short, and then the business about "failure to appear".
However, once it was Federal--it was up to the Feds to get Weaver--thus the Marshal's SOG.

They crept in, observed, the dogs were alerted, a shootout took place, and the rest is history.

Whether Horiuchi shot and killed her according to the rules of engagement present at the time or whether he did it in cold blood is another point of contention. Danny Coulson wrote a book about the FBI HRT and he addresses that issue clearly. No, Coulson is not just parroting the FBI line either. It's a good book--I'll get the title for anyone interested.

pato

http://www.hardcoretalk.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=38;t=004146

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The greatest feat the Devil ever achieved was convince the world he didn't exist.

Neca eos omnes Deus suos agnoscet
Translation:
"Kill them all.
God will know His own."

Posts: 10413 | From: Pa. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
TLynn
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JungleWork,

Thanks but it's not just my evaluation. I had many a friend and family member who lived in that area at the time. That was pretty much the opinion of them all. It was also the opinion of a few of the law enforcement officers around as well.

pato - it could be debatable about whether or not the feds had jurisdiction. There was quite a bit to do about it. I believe the word entrapment came up a lot at the time. But it's water under the bridge. Just like Dallas is water under the bridge - until he gets a gun, starts poaching and shoots his next cop.

Posts: 2836 | From: Idaho - you got a problem with that? | Registered: Sep 2000  |  IP: Logged
em
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When does he actually walk out of prison.

Is there a site that lets you see who is being released and when?

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pato
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Released today.
Family member picked him up.

pato

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En la vida se presentan dos o tres ocasiones para ser heroe, pero casi todos los dias se presentan la ocasion para no ser cobarde"

Posts: 4440 | From: San Antonio, Texas, USA | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
Hankster2
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Tho Weaver may have been a head case.....the deal sucked from the Gov side.
Remember "Abscam"?? Gov officials who took bribes in the form of suitcases full of cash from fake "arabs"??????
They cried "Entrapment", and got off for the most part.
Same stunt pulled on weaver......definate "entrapment", using the gov's on standard..and he lost half his family!!

Something just ain't right here......

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All thats necessary for Evil to triumph, is for Good men to do nothing.

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looney
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quote:
Originally posted by TLynn:
Weaver was a Seperatist. He wanted to be left alone more than anything.

And in all reality his wife was the moving force and controller of the family not Weaver himself.

pato - no offense but there's a lot about the Weaver family and what happened that truly didn't make it into the National news correctly. He was set up, the federal government didn't let the local police do the arrest which would of resulted in no bloodshed, and quite frankly it was the federal police who caused the problems in the first place. Weaver was and always will be an idiot. The federal sniper knew exactly what he was doing when he killed Weaver's wife. He took out the brains of the family. Probably why the prosecutors here in Idaho charged him with cold blooded murder.


I watched a documentary about this and it tended to corroborate with what you said. I think it was called "Secret rulers of the world". IE looking at wacko cults but from what it showed in that programme was one big Government cock up.

It also said that Waco kicked of during the inquirey in to Rubey Ridge and implyed that it was The US Attorney General trying to cover the Presidents(Clinton) and her(Janet Reno?)arse.

The programme maker was self declared left of centre but he let the facts talk for themselves.

Does this make sense?

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A fine is a tax for doing wrong. A tax is a fine for doing well.

Posts: 1579 | From: U.K. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Hankster2
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Yeah, you have a pretty good grip on the situation.Waco was a screw-up deal also.....that Koresh guy could have been picked up in town almost any time.....Feds wanted a show...and got a disaster.

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All thats necessary for Evil to triumph, is for Good men to do nothing.

Posts: 352 | From: Missouri | Registered: Jan 2006  |  IP: Logged
   

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